d the lights are bright and he is saying, "Now, Mr.
Voelker, what is this you wrote in the book about 'Big Annie'? Would you kindly
explain all of this to us again. We're trying to determine your fitness to be a
judge." Can you imagine that? Justice Voelker: Yeah. This "Anatomy of a Murder" thing came out while I was on
the bench. I had written it beforehand. I was a D.A. for fourteen years up
here. "Oscar, the Attorney", we call it poetically in Michigan. One of the
biggest copies east of the Mississippi and mixed lobbying, mining, God knows
what, farming, this, that, and there were still Justices of the Peace in those
days, some of whom couldn't even read, let alone speak English and I'd travel
around these various counties, I mean townships...and what the Hell was I going
to... Mr. Lane: Who are we talking about "what happened to the old characters
and how they got crowded out by television" and you were recalling the way it
was back in the 1940's and 1950's. Justice Voelker: That's right, and earlier. I mean, I'm an old guy. I'm 87...old
F.A.R.Q. Mr. Lane: Do you know...I suppose you do...that you come out of the same
law firm....that's just a sticker to reminder you of a guy's name...you come
out the same law firm as Adlai Stevenson? Did you happen to cross paths with
him? Was he there when you were? Justice Voelker: No. What law firm? Mr. Lane: Mayer, Meyer, Austrian and Platt. Adlai Stevenson was a... Justice Voelker: If I knew that, I had forgotten it because I was an admirer of
his. He was an unusual candidate, an unusual guy. Mr. Lane: He may have been there before you came. Justice Voelker: He must have been. Mr. Lane: I got... Justice Voelker: Let's get this over with first. What's your name? Mr. Lane: Roger Lane. Justice Voelker: Let me try...Roger Lane...L-a-n-e... Mr. Lane: Correct. Justice Voelker: Some spell that L-a-i-n-e, it's like "Joann" or "Joanna", you
know...Roger Lane. "To Brett Danielson from his friend, Roger Lane along with
the best wishes"...I better, I tend to run on. Mr. Lane: That's all right. Justice Voelker: "Best wishes"...I won't get into the judge thing..."Roger Lane
along with the best wishes of the author". How about that? Mr. Lane: Very good. Justice Voelker: Television, you see a show on that; the show is created,
written by somebody, created by somebody, produced by somebody, I mean, it
sounds too complicated for words. Everybody wants his name... Mr. Lane: And God help the man that wants to pick out the author. He
might miss him when the cascade of 35 names comes on the screen. Justice Voelker: Well, the very fact that there are so many hands in it is
telling you that it must be...it would be a miracle if the story were
intelligible at all. It takes one person, I guess, to really spin a yarn that
tells a story, I guess. I don't know. Mr. Lane: Well, that's the wonder of mankind in our civilization, the
product of one man, not a committee, but one man can do what you do. Justice Voelker: That's right. An accident...I learned to spell and my parents
were mixed. My mother came here as a music teacher in the public schools. Mr. Lane: To Ishpeming? Justice Voelker: She was from away. Her background...her maiden name was Traver
which I took when I began spinning yarns. I was D.A. than and I thought it
might be a little "im-politic" or the voters would think that the busy D.A. was
spinning yarns on taxpayers' time, so that's how I happened to get this Traver
name and finally, I was stuck with it. Mr. Lane: When was that first...when was that "Northwoods D.A"....when
was that book published? Do you remember? Justice Voelker: That was my third book after "Danny". The first one was
"Troubleshooter". I wrote two D.A. books and some day, I expect they will be on
television because this is a devouring world, television is. They'll get to it.
CBS once had it right up to a deal but somebody found some swear words..."Oh,
my goodness", and it didn't...and there are still grumblings. Most of my books
are out of print. A couple of the fishing books are still. There was a picture
book, a fishing book...do you remember that? Mr. Lane: Was that "Laughing Whitefish"? No, no, that was... Justice Voelker: "Anatomy of a Fisherman"...picture, like an old time life
photographer called Kelley. It was his idea and I guess picture books are
expensive to print now days, like everything else. Mr. Lane: They are. You know, there has been a transformation in the
whole publishing business. You talk about being out of print, well, that's the
way. Justice Voelker: Not all to the good, by the way. I mean, publishing contracts
now, the publisher tells you what...you allow your book to be published on his
terms. I mean, it used to be a certain percentage of this, that and the other
thing of subsidiary rights. St Martins Press that published "Anatomy of a
Murder" had but 15% of the movie rights cut on my take of the movie rights. Mr. Lane: Is that right? Justice Voelker: Now it's 50% on any contract that I've signed since then, and I
think they're right. If a book isn't published, there aren't going to be many
subsidiary rights from it, so the publisher who brought it out has some
argument for the birth, I guess. Mr. Lane: He's the mid-wife. Justice Voelker: That's right. Let's see..."John Voelker" Anyway, she met a
small saloon keeper with a German name who apparently fascinated her and they
married, and I'm the youngest of six sons. He was a widower then with three
sons. I am the youngest of the six and the last. Mr. Lane: Was he a saloon keeper here in Ishpeming or somewhere else? Justice Voelker: Ishpeming. Mr. Lane: So your whole life from birth on relates to this place. Justice Voelker: I was born in town in an old frame house that is still there
but we rent it so that we don't have to tear it down, and it pays the taxes. It
is a block from the Carnegie Public Library. Mr. Lane: Is that right on the main road now, or...? Justice Voelker: No, Barnum Street. And as a kid, my mother taught me to go to
the library and read, read, read, and I think reading is one of the best ways
to educate kids that there is...reading ...communication of other people over
the years. Not that I started out with high falluting authors. I went through
the Rober Boys and Algier stories and this, that but I have been reading, and I
got a little familiar with using words, not judicial words. I think, as you
know, one of the problems with judicial opinions...so may of them are so God
damn unreadable. Mr. Lane: They're written for their author and a couple lawyers, not the
populace. Justice Voelker: Part of it is inevitable. I mean, these phrases and idioms and
judicial talk have now been interpreted so long that you stand...if you try to
re-phrase it in plain English, you're liable to lose your case and your client.
You've got to use some of this...well, the bottom line parameter. I mean,
there's a lot of...the way politicians talk...a good deal of the law, opinions
have been. I think the bar, as you know...Fred Baker said he's a good friend of
yours... Mr. Lane: Right. Justice Voelker: ...and he is interested in, I guess, tried to ease legal and
judicial English. Mr. Lane: He is. You know, he is, as you undoubtedly know, the main force
in the Michigan Bar Journal and there has been an attempt in recent years
to... Justice Voelker: He is a very interesting guy and it's encouraging to see a
young lawyer like him. Shall I date it? Mr. Lane: Why don't you. Justice Voelker: Is this October 1st? Mr. Lane: The first of October. Justice Voelker: I could say U.P. - or bust. I put on my old car "U.P or bust"
years ago. Mr. Lane: Tell me, how did you ever happen to run for public office the
first time and what was the year? Do you remember? Was it when you ran for
prosecutor the first time? Was that your first public office try? Justice Voelker: I'll get to it. "October 1st, A.D., Ishpeming". Mr. Lane: Do you want me to take that from you? Are you through with it
now? Justice Voelker: Yeah. Mr. Lane: Okay. I'll just drop it over here. Justice Voelker: Do you want this? Mr. Lane: No, that was just for helpers. Justice Voelker: I know. Mr. Lane: You'd come up from Chicago and that would have been... Justice Voelker: The reason I was in Chicago...I met a girl, this lady. Is she
here? Did you speak with Grace? Mr. Lane: Oh, yes. At the door, right. Justice Voelker: I met her in my senior year in law school. I mean, we breed
race horses with great care and all this, but romance...love. So, she was from
Illinois, Oak Park down near Chicago. Here I was a cynical senior in law
school, you know, the top...at the Crease Dance at the Quad
. It wasn't a law school then. The law school was still
further down State Street. It was the Law Club which has since become the Law
School and the whole works. Anyway, I graduated and came up here and worked as
Assistant D.A. for a while for the prosecutor, an excellent prosecutor for his
time, a fire-ball of a lawyer, a Mike Wallace prosecutor. There aren't many. I
never was that way, but he was and it was his way, and he was damn good at it.
Mr. Lane: Did you succeed him? Did he drop out or go somewhere else and
then you ran for his spot? Is that the way it worked? Justice Voelker: Yeah, he ran for Congress on the Republican ticket. This was in
the F.D.R. days, early "New Deal" and up here, the unions were sprouting and
this, that and the other thing. He was defeated, and he moved west, and I think
ran out there. He was a terrific guy, and I say part of his problem - he was
naturally Republican when he started, but he was not a conservative Republican.
He was a fire-ball of a guy, his own ideas, but he couldn't very well turn back
then. He was marked, I mean, the Republican candidate. Anyway, I left there and
went to Chicago and married the girl, and I didn't know it when the chemistry
began in Ann Arbor that her father happened to be in one of the big downtown
banks. I did not know that. Well, it worked out that he waved a wand and Adlai
Stevenson's law firm gave me a job as a peasant back in the "bull pen", we
called it, where the young lawyers stayed, four or five of us in one big room.
I stayed there about three years. One thing I learned was how to look up law. A
lot of young lawyers...I don't know, but at that time, we didn't have much
experience in looking up law, chasing down a theory or a case or whatever, and
finally I learned that I didn't like city. I still don't. I hate to even see
them. I think they are uninhabitable. That's a large...and more and more, the
proof is coming on that this may be true. Strangers colliding with each other
and now they found guns and drugs and God knows what. Not that there isn't
drugs and crimes in smaller communities, but at least you can get the Hell away
from the crowd. I can. I have a little camp on a pond here. It's only a few
miles from my big airport, K.I. Sawyer Airport but when I get there, I'm the
Hell and gone away from the crowd. There is still trees, bears and deer, and
foxes and not many wolves anymore, but I used to see them. I had to come home,
and I ran for D.A., and I ran on F.D.R.'s ticket. Mr. Lane: Would that be in 1934? Do you remember...1936 or right around
there? Justice Voelker: 1934. Oh, wait a minute. When was Roosevelt, in 1932? Mr. Lane: He was first elected in 1932, but... Justice Voelker: Yeah, it was 1934, I ran as D.A. and with a big bunch of
candidates for the nomination. There were two or three on each ticket. It
happened that I was the only one that happened to be born and raised here. Mr. Lane: The others were carpet-baggers, were they? Justice Voelker: Well, they were...I mean, they were kids that moved in. I don't
say it clinically, but it happened that I was the only one, and I used that.
Campaigning was different then. You went around and visited the voters. You
went to the mines, here, there, the corset factory in wherever the Hell, and
you had meetings in townships, and you communicated with the voters instead of
speaking into a microphone on television accusing your opponents of eating
crackers in bed and similar crummy charges. I am quoting from something I wrote
recently. Mr. Lane: "Press the flesh" - who was it that talked about "pressing the
flesh"? Justice Voelker: I forget. I remember the phrase. Mr. Lane: Well, that's what you're talking about, isn't it? Hand-to-hand
contact. Justice Voelker: I did it for fourteen years and finally, I was beaten by a
young kid that never tried a case...never tried a case. Mr. Lane: What were the circumstances of that? Justice Voelker: Well, it was a...I mean, there are local and state...I mean,
politics is fluid. It isn't only a personal race. It is sometimes swayed by
this, that, or... Mr. Lane: Would that have been 1948? Would that have been the time of the
Republican high expectations because... Justice Voelker: Maybe so. It was 1950. I lost by seven votes, and I thought,
"Well, a recount", and then I finally realized that I wanted out, but by then,
I had three children. Two of them were in college, and between my fishing and
yarn spinning and D.A.'ing, I didn't have much time to build a private
practice. Mr. Lane: Had you benefitted financially from any of your writings at
that time? Justice Voelker: No. Mr. Lane: You were then sort of on your "uppers", right? Justice Voelker: I had three books, two D.A. and the "Danny" books that had
appeared and been respectfully, you know, not clobbered by the critics, but
they died a natural death like most books...then, at least. And so I
tried...let's see... Mr. Lane: That would have been... Justice Voelker: Oh, wait a minute. I'm trying to... Mr. Lane: Was it 1950? Justice Voelker: This was in the 1950's, and I tried. Oh, I ran for
Congress. Mr. Lane: You ran against Frank Hook one time, didn't you? Justic
Mr. Lane:
Yes. Now, what do you recall about that part of your
career?
Justice Voelker:
I discovered that...I decided that my life was getting so
complicated, what with writing and movies and best-sellers and the
best-seller...I mean, that doesn't happen to a lot of old, experienced writers
and here was an ex-D.A. with a national best-seller and all this hoopla and
Johnny Carson calling and this one "come and see us", and I was going through
that, too. I went through it...I probably wouldn't again, but that was the way
it was. I decided that I'd better...well, one thing, my old circuit judge told
me after this...or did he live into...my old circuit judge, Judge Bell, was an
old friend. We became friends, and he was an old woodsman. We fished...I'd take
him fishing. I mean, we liked each other, kind of a rare thing to like your
city judge, and when he retired, I would go and visit him at his house, and
wind up with a bit of Bourbon, maybe.
Mr. Lane:
Old "court-wood", maybe?
Justice Voelker:
Yeah, I forget, and he told me about the case. It was actually
three cases that made up "Laughing Whitefish", the book...I guess you haven't
read it.
Mr. Lane:
No.
Justice Voelker:
It's really a historical novel or as one reviewer said,
"hysterical", which made me laugh, "ha, ha". It's the only one I ever wrote I
did a lot of research on it, and I wanted to write it but no time. It was too
busy. You still didn't have the Interim Appellate Court, busier than Hell. The
Supreme Court job was the busiest job I ever had in my life and up here during
strikes and things, it was pretty busy being D.A., and the pressure was too
much and I could afford finally...I mean, some guys work at things they hate
because they cannot afford not to...they have families and responsibilities. I
could afford not to, and I figured that while, as I wrote Soapy finally when I
would resign, "I'm sorry, Governor, but while other men may write my opinions,
they can scarcely write my books. Goodbye and thank you". And I miss Soapy and
I'm saddened that he's dead. He was quite a man.
Mr. Lane:
He was, and he lived a long, full life, really.
Justice Voelker:
Yes, he did. He did.
Mr. Lane:
Do you recall in the spring? In those days, in those times, the
Supreme Court justices were elected in the spring election, were they not?
Justice Voelker:
That was right.
Mr. Lane:
So you ran, let's say, in April or...
Justice Voelker:
I think, even in May.
Mr. Lane:
...for an eight year term that was to start after the year had
ended, correct? Your term that you were running for in those times didn't start
until...
Justice Voelker:
I think it was the June. We had four...roughly four terms, and
there was a June...that was the longest period. There was a fall term, the
winter term, the Christmas term, the early spring term, the summer term, I
guess. There were roughly four terms, and...
Mr. Lane:
How long would you spend in Lansing during those...?
Justice Voelker:
I got out of Lansing as fast as I could.
Mr. Lane:
I mean, would that be a matter of a few weeks though, or
longer?
Justice Voelker:
Well, yeah...we had to get down there, I mean, before the court
started. We reviewed the cases and things that were coming up. They weren't all
big cases. There were motions and God knows what.
Mr. Lane:
How did you travel in those days? Did you travel by car or by
train?
Justice Voelker:
Well, I think there were still a few trains, but I drove a lot,
and I remember coming home in a snow storm from Lansing and landing at the
straits and wanting to get home, and driving in a blinding snow storm. The only
way I could see the road was to see the banks that the plows had left. I could
not see the road and still, I made it. It was almost suicidal, crazy to do, but
I got home. I figured that this sort of thing had got to stop. I knew that I
didn't want to spend any more time in Lansing than was necessary. I wanted to
get home to my family and my back roads and fishing, and all the things that
really count, sir...no, I'm kidding.
Mr. Lane:
You know, getting back to your cases, in the magic of modern
technology, you know, they can...you spit certain things into the machine, and
they'll bring up all the titles. You know that, I guess.
Justice Voelker:
I guess so.
Mr. Lane:
And I got all your dissents and all the cases that you wrote
majority opinions in, and it is interesting to me that the way it came out was
that you were the author of 94 opinions, at least by what this computer scan
shows, and you were listed as a dissenter in only 14 cases, of which you must
have written probably six or seven and concurred in dissents in other cases.
Now, what I see in this and what I'd like to call your attention to is that
there were about six cases that you wrote, you were the author of those
cases...to every one where you found it necessary to be recorded as against the
majority. I did the same thing for Justice Lindemer who served back in '76, and
he came out an even number, I forget whether it's 22 and 22...he wasn't on the
court too long, but I just...if you recall, I would like to hear your thoughts
about the fact that for a lot of the recent history, there has been evidence of
a lot of strife and division.
Justice Voelker:
In the present court?
Mr. Lane:
Well, not so much...I'm not thinking of right now, but in
recent...the last couple of decades.
Justice Voelker:
I see.
Mr. Lane:
And back when you served, there must have been a different
atmosphere, and I suspect it was one of civility and "don't beat the other guys
brains out...you can disagree but say 'Well, okay, I disagree. Let it
go.'".
Justice Voelker:
We tried to avoid personalities, rank...we tried to...even if
we disagreed, we tried to be judicial about it.
Mr. Lane:
And concur in the result, or...?
Justice Voelker:
Well, I mean that dissent from Dethmers, John Dethmers, my old
friend, was kind of rough and tough but respectful. I respected his view. He
was taking the traditional view of nudity, and I forget the exact charge. John
had...
Mr. Lane:
What it turned on in your analysis was illegal search. The cops
came...remember one time, and they were snooping.
Justice Voelker:
Yeah.
Mr. Lane:
And they did it under the guise of a warrant. Then, and there
was some more...
Justice Voelker:
They knew that the thing had been there for years. This was an
old-time and mostly family thing, and it was a raw case...it was the wrong case
for nudity thing, and I couldn't swallow it, and I dissented and got enough
votes, I guess...
Mr. Lane:
Edwards concurred in the results in that case. Do you remember
that?
Justice Voelker:
No, I don't.
Mr. Lane:
Well, Edwards was the fourth vote, and he apparently didn't
want to go along with some of your rhetoric, and you went into this thing in
considerable detail...
Justice Voelker:
I did.
Mr. Lane:
...both legally and in a rhetorical way. I got the book out if
you have any yen to see what it looks like. I didn't bother to bring it in from
the car, but I would guess, off-hand, that your opinion which was labeled
"dissent" but got four votes and became the opinion of the court probably ran
25 or 30 pages and in those days, that was a lot of pages.
Justice Voelker:
Yeah, I got into that. It was a tough one. It was a tough one.
There is no doubt that it was a place where people could go and take off their
clothes and relax, but their children and so forth...and...
Mr. Lane:
There was a passage...
Justice Voelker:
Let me, before I forget it...At that time, apparently I was
being interviewed and some Life photographer was up here and he wanted to
interview me and take some pictures and one of them that he wanted to take was
in a Finnish sauna so I was on the court then and I was wary enough to not want
to be in the sauna alone, so I got a young lawyer friend to sit with me in the
sauna with a towel over us...we were bare-ass...excuse me...idiom creeps
out...with a towel over where the towel should be, and he took a picture of
many pictures, local, and fishing and so forth and it wasn't Life but Time, I
guess. Time ran a picture; they got it from Life, apparently, about the nudist
judge who had written the opinion. They didn't say I was a nudist but the
picture they showed was without the lawyer and without the towel. I don't know
what the Hell they did with the towel, but the implication was that I was a
nudist writing an opinion, prevailing opinion sustaining nudity, so I
wrote...it's the only letter I ever wrote to a periodical, but it was a dirty
trick and somebody had planned it...it was a dirty, it was a false picture, and
I said, "You know damn well that a lawyer that was a nudist, a judge would not
be sitting on the case. He would either withdraw voluntarily or he would
be...he wouldn't be permitted to sit on the case".
Mr. Lane:
Do you recall that in the course of writing the case, there was
a passage where you said, "Now, despite all that I am writing here, I want to
make it clear that I have no sympathy with..."
End of side 2, tape 1.
Justice Voelker continues to discuss the People vs.
Hildabridle case, quoting from the opinion he wrote in part to clarify that he
is not a nudist. He briefly discusses Justice George Edwards before the end of
the recording.
Mr. Lane:
Start where you started before...
Justice Voelker:
I will now read a passage from 353 Michigan Report, beginning
on page 578, an opinion I wrote back in 1958. "Lest I henceforth be heralded as
the patron saint of nudism (which I probably will be anyway), I hasten to
preface what follows by stating that I am not a disciple of the cult of nudism.
Its presumed enchantments totally elude me. The prospect of displaying my
unveiled person before others or beholding others thus displayed revolts and
horrifies me. I think these people have carried an arguably valid basic idea
(the deliberate de-emphasis of the prevailing Western body taboo, with the
anticipated lessening and ultimate disappearance of the undoubted eroticism
frequently attendent upon such taboo - that is, the very opposite of indecency)
to excessive lengths." I haven't read this in a long time. Are you still
there?
Mr. Lane:
You bet.
Justice Voelker:
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